Monday, November 23, 2009

Is the North Country a cautionary tale for the Federal stimulus?

The debate over the Federal stimulus has gone down the rabbit hole of political hysterics. Lost in the "socialism" melodrama are some big questions with some potentially scary answers.

First, let me say that I'm convinced that we needed a huge, debt-driven infusion of cash late in 2008 to keep the economy going and to prevent states like California and New York from tipping into insolvency.

There's a lot of hand-wring over 10% unemployment, but without the stimulus we might easily be pushing into the 15-17% range.

What's more, I think the bank and car-maker bailouts helped prevent a Depression-scale economic catastrophe.

But all the good news (or, rather, happily mediocre news) doesn't settle the two looming quandaries that still remain.

1. Will America mire itself in so much public debt that we'll drown any future prosperity?

2. Is government simulus spending masking the fact that our economy is fundamentally broken?

On the first point, I think -- Paul Krugman aside -- a growing number of economists think we're approaching a dangerous horizon.

There is a very real potential, especially if interest rates spiral upward, that the U.S. could find itself in a Third-World style debt crunch.

But I think this worry is secondary to the core problem of a broken economy. And here's where the North Country comes in.

When most economists talk about stimulus spending, the underlying assumption is that the national economy is relatively sound and healthy.

All that's needed is a little pump-priming, perhaps a few regulatory tweaks, and we're ready to cycle upward back to full production and employment

That is, arguably, what happened after the Great Depression.

The New Deal and the deficit spending that fueled the Second World War primed the national pump on a massive scale.

But there's a wrinkle. The stimulus of the 1930s and 40s only worked for parts of the country where the underlying economy was healthy.

In much of rural America, it simply didn't work.

A half-century later, many small towns are still mired in depression-level poverty -- masked in some cases by government spending.

The North Country, where we live, is a case in point.

This region has benefited from half a century of massive government infusions of cash, most of it provided by taxpayers living elsewhere.

But despite an endless cycles of stimulus spending, we still rely on government spending for nearly half of our take-home salaries.

In our dependancy-economy, government remains the region's single largest provider of investment capital.

So why didn't the pump-priming work here?

Put bluntly, it's because our private sector doesn't create products and services that enough consumers want to buy.

On the contrary.

More and more of our factories and mills have shut down, because the same products can be made cheaper elsewhere, or because demand for those products no longer exists.

My fear is that America writ large is beginning to look like the North Country.

Once the stimulus money is gone, will there be enough factories and labs and farms and mills producing enough goods and services to keep the economy rolling forward?

Or will we find whole states -- California? Michigan? -- stuck with the kind of chronic double-digit unemployment and lackluster private investment that have long afflicted rural America?

41 Comments:

At November 23, 2009 5:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian Mann said: "The stimulus of the 1930s and 40s only worked for parts of the country where the underlying economy was healthy.
In much of rural America, it simply didn't work."
What are you basing this on, Brian? Because in much of America, including places like Texas that were awash in crippling poverty, the stimulus brought them prosperity and modernity the likes of which they'd never known--beyond alleviating the immediate suffering of the depression. Whole areas of the country were electrified and graced with roads that linked them to the world.
I don't think Krugman is the outlier here. It's fairly well accepted, except by neocon revisionists, that New Deal spending, then war spending, saved the U.S. economy.

 
At November 23, 2009 5:12 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

All this money coming into the region, though a potential boom does not do us much good because it is revolving door. Most of the money leaves the region within a week or two to pay the bills. If we want th3 suburban dream for the North Country we are likely to be frustrated and disappointed. But something more in tune with the region's strength might create a more modest material way of life, higher in quality, and still very workable. Keeping more $$$ in the region for goods and services we can produce for ourselves would in turn generate more economic activity. Perhaps the resources, monetary and otherwise, are here for our use, but at present locked up in ways that do not benefit us as much as they could. Let's say one of the North Country counties could reduce their energy bill by $20,000,000 a year for oil and natural gas by using wood and biomass such as grass pellets for heat. That $20,000,000 would be kept in the region creating jobs, using our underutilized natural resources, etc. Or, if the same county spends $200,000,000 a year on food. What if we could re-capture even 10% of that on locally produced food. Certainly we are not going to raise bananas, pineapples, or necessarily produce cheetos and soft drinks. But we could raise much of our own meat as well as summer vegetables in season, and root crops for storage and processing. Injecting $20,000,000 creates jobs in trucking, small scale processing and storage. Over time the dynamic changes and becomes self-re-enforcing in a different way than what we have now. Such a regional economy may not allow time for lots of golf, watching tv for five hours a day, or long periods for contemplating one's navel, but ultimately it would be more real, more satisfying. The current model of economic development has certainly failed us miserably.

 
At November 23, 2009 5:14 PM , Blogger Brian Mann said...

Anonymous -

Fair point. Yes. The New Deal did advance many parts of rural America -- and, it might be argued, helped transform many parts of rural America into suburban or even urban America.

I think my central point still stands though. There are many parts of rural America where it didn't work. Where government stimulus begat more stimulus -- where farm subsidies begat more farm subsidies.

--Brian, NCPR

 
At November 23, 2009 5:27 PM , Anonymous frank thies said...

Brian, these are some pretty tough questions and scenarios you raise.

We have indeed witnessed factories, mills, and labs being shut down in the NC and across the nation. Many family farms have shut down as mega-corporate farms have become the norm.

I'm originally from the Buffalo area. All of the powerful steel mills that once hired tens of thousands of workers, are idle and rusting into the earth.

More locally, I have a difficult time imagining Pyrites as a once thriving mill town. Same with Benson Mines, near Star Lake. It is practically a ghost town now. Newton Falls once had a market, bowling alley, movie theater and several churches.

We need to put our people to work in the industries of the here and now and those that will impact our future.
I'm talking about "green" automobiles being mass produced and sold at a price that the worker who made the vehicle can afford (an old Henry Ford dictum).

We need to put people to work rebuilding and refurbishing our infrastructure and we need to commit in a big way. No piece-meal approach. Roads, bridges, sewer systems, waste disposal, brown field clean-up, more efficient water delivery systems, environmental clean-up, reforestation, building schools, restoring the vitality of our urban centers, and a hundred other needs can put people to work. It could be a partnership between the private sector and government.

Our energy grid is an inefficient, complicated mess. The need for immediate rehabilitation is there to be met.

Industries producing solar panels, wind-mills, fuels from algea, grasses for fuel, and gas (methane from waste dumps and animal waste) and a whole host of other "green" products could put our scientists and labs back to work.

The transformation from a horse based culture to an automobile culture was literally a "culture shock."

The transformation from a heavy industry/manufacturing culture to a culture provides services and products that are clean and green will be, and already is, a culture shock.

We need to retool and adjust, or we may find the newest disaster movie "2012" to be prophetic.

Thanks for ruining my lunch today :-)

 
At November 23, 2009 5:56 PM , Anonymous frank thies said...

I forgot to mention the need for jobs in wetlands restoration and watershed protection/clean-up.

But even bigger is the need for mass transportation and high speed rail. Produce the steel and the trains here in America.

We can build a train that will take us across our continent in less than 24 hours, or quicker - there are trains today that travel at speeds of 500+ miles per hour. The average speed is 350. But none of these trains operate in the U.S.. Why not? The jobs created would be legion.

Collectively, we have spent the last couple of hundred years dumping in and fouling our beautiful nest. We need to spend the next hundred years undoing the stink.

Put people to work in a postive way.

 
At November 23, 2009 6:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think our belts will be much tighter. I don't think the public education model is sustainable- nor is the panalopy of Social Services programs, home health care and other worthy programs will disappear. All the research programs and funding for grants, etc., will have to stop. I don't think most New Yorkers can envision what has to happen for fiscal responsibiity to happen.

 
At November 23, 2009 6:31 PM , Anonymous frank thies said...

That would be the type of fiscal responsibility that existed pre- 1933 and FDR's "New Deal."

Work houses for the poor. Starvation for elderly.
An ill-educated work force for industry.
Homelessness for the jobless.

To add a modern day wrinkle, there would be plenty of work for security guards, to guard private and exclusive, gated communities and for security guards in all the new prisons that will be built.

I think that could be termed fiscal insanity.
But you just may be right. Scary.

 
At November 23, 2009 8:36 PM , Blogger ty said...

This post has been removed by the author.

 
At November 23, 2009 9:13 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

we're listenin' ty.

we got to get back to the land and to the garden...

"Before the breathing air is gone
Before the sun is just a bright spot in the night time
Out where the rivers like to run
I stand alone
And take back something worth remembering."


ty, I know you are speaking of what is possible for the NC, but not all of America is rural.

but you offer part of the solution :-)

 
At November 24, 2009 8:21 AM , Anonymous UB said...

Cutting wood for wood pellets?...growing root crops and raising beef? Sounds like farming to me.

I grew up on a family farm that a government run economy destroyed 40 years ago.

Who is going to do all of this work?

The local farmers now have to import illegals to milk the cows. These same farms offer a descent wage, vacation time and health care.

Our biggest problems facing our country are the loss of a good work ethic and the fact that too many people feel that they are entitled to something rather than working for it!

 
At November 24, 2009 8:42 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

american work ethics?
non-existant!
you can work 8hrs a day and still be poor, or you can not work and be poor, which choice will human nature sway us to choose. simply stating that illegals who work here for what appears to be less money than american citizens are willing to work for is hidding ther fact that when the illegals take that money to their home cocuntry's economy, that 10$ an hour translates to much much more.
so in reality they are not working for a non sustainable wage at all.
paying 100 dollars a day to a unskilled illegal immigrant translates to 7 times that amount in mexico. thats alot of queso my friend. so in one days work, they made what may be a months pay bach "home". not bad right? motivational no?
fix that!

 
At November 24, 2009 8:48 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

are we not as citizens of this country expected to feel entitled to benefits from living in a powerful, industrialized, democratic, society?
i expect great health care and great educational systems, to name a few, without having to do ANYTHING. afterall i seem to "get" million dollar war machines built without any of my input.

 
At November 24, 2009 9:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

In other words, just show up?

 
At November 24, 2009 9:56 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian Mann, thanks for acknowledging the New Deal point. I think you're talking about apples and oranges here, not to be rural or anything, conflating the New Deal with later Big Corporate Ag and Big Prison and Big Pharma subsidies that the North Country relies on.
The New Deal was an emergency jobs and infrastructure package that established a safety net and built things like power plants and bridges--in fact, much of New York State (see early Robert Moses)-- with lots of government oversight. It worked. We had fewer starving people and better roads.
Big Ag and Big Pharma subsidies work too, for as long as the companies can max out profits and consolidate market share. Then, after all that government help, they decide to become "efficient" and leave for the third world. Thanks, ConAgra. Thanks, Pfizer. And thank you, US Govt. All looking out for the little guy.

 
At November 24, 2009 10:08 AM , Anonymous Bret4207 said...

Oh boy, The New Deal myth is still alive and well. Good old FDR's policies prolonged the Depression by at least 7-8 years folks. Gov't forcing business to do what they want rather than what business needs never works. A cash infusion form the stimulus? Just where is it Brian? Last I heard 90% of those funds weren;t do to be spent until just before election time next year, gotta buy voted don'tchaknow.

There are some good ideas here, but until you make the US and NY in particular a business friendly place (read that low costs/taxes/high profit) we're doomed. And putting our grandkids further in debt won't fix it,

 
At November 24, 2009 10:25 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Bret. The New Deal was a catastrophy that kept 15-25% unemployment for a decade instead of 3-4 years. Even FDR, the great statist, sat there asking himself why unemployment was still so high after all the spending for so long.
Businesses create jobs that are sustainable, not the government. The only sector of the economy showing growth is the government and somehow that needs to be paid for by the taxpayers.
The government could screw up a wet dream when it comes to the economy and business. If I was a business owner, there is no way I'd even try expanding my business right now in this country. With all the uncertainty of how much the health care bill and especially cap and tax (trade) is going to cost and effect business, why would a business try to grow right now. I'd love an explanation from someone. The government has put such a dark cloud over what they are thinking they are trying to help. The gov't basically has a noose around the neck of all business in this country under the cover of the stimulus bill and they are too stupid to know it or see it or they are too crooked to cross their political contributors for the good of all of us.

 
At November 24, 2009 10:35 AM , Blogger Dale Hobson said...

Anon 8:42 said: "american work ethics? non-existant!"

According the the Economic Policy Institute, US families worked 15% more hours each week in 2000 than they did in 1975. According to MIT studies of Bureau of Labor statistics, a worker in 2000 was producing as much in 27 hours as a worker in 1975 produced in 40 hours. Household median income adjusted for inflation, however, has stayed pretty much flat since the mid-1980s. This indicates that American families are working longer and more productively to stay in the same place.

 
At November 24, 2009 10:41 AM , Blogger ty said...

This post has been removed by the author.

 
At November 24, 2009 10:45 AM , Blogger ty said...

This post has been removed by the author.

 
At November 24, 2009 11:05 AM , Anonymous Bret4207 said...

Bingo!!! Relying in Gov't subsidies! There's is a big part of our problems in agriculture and in a lot of other places too. We rely on subsidies and other artificial means to support business paradigms that just don't work. How do you fix it? Well, it seems no one really wants to, so why bother explaining my little view of it? Suffice it to say it'll hurt in the short run, but be better in the long run. The problem is, like Bill Clintons "surplus" in the 0's, it'll only work as long as nothing changes. Raise the minimum wage or the cost of something else and it starts to crumble. Let politicians put their greedy little fingers in it and it'll die.

 
At November 24, 2009 11:32 AM , Anonymous hermit thrush said...

i think the consensus among economists is that the new deal helped a lot towards combating the depression, and that its shortcomings were due to a lack of ambition. the true recovery only came during the war, when government spending became much, much higher.

perish the thought of how bad things would be now without the stimulus bill.

 
At November 24, 2009 11:40 AM , Blogger ty said...

hermit thrush:

"perish the thought of how bad things would be now without the stimulus bill."

How? What would have happened? Rioting in the streets? Martial law? Anarchy? Mass starvation?

Come on. Give me some detail, not just gloom and doom rhetoric.

 
At November 24, 2009 12:49 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

ty on November 24, 2009 11:40 said:

"How? What would have happened? Rioting in the streets? Martial law? Anarchy? Mass starvation?"


ty, possibly all four of your scenarios would happen. Were it not for the continuing stimulus packages (started during Bush's final two years in office), we might have entered the "Really Big and No Good Horrible Depression. Nothing would have been "Great" about it.

And then picture this. Think of all of the "urban minorities" who have been bearing the brunt of "grunt" work in the illegal war in Iraq these past 8 long years since "Mission Accomplished"

These kids have training in methods and techniques that would bring anarchy to our streets the likes we never seen before.

We need a new "Nwe Deal".

I previously outlined the many needs this Nation must meet.

And, if our Treasury ever runs out of paper to print money, we can declare an International Jubilee with all debts cancelled across the board. The International Monetary Fund and the world's banking concerns could start over on a clean slate.

 
At November 24, 2009 1:07 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bret,
If, as you say, large government roles in the economy don't work, at all, why do places like China, Taiwan, Korea and Singapore win all of our business away over the last 40 years? And why is Germany so far ahead of us in energy technology?
It all depends on how government chooses to spend. We choose to spend on defense companies and wars. And we have a great military.
And, btw, I think our actual military does the job better than private-sector companies like Blackwater.

 
At November 24, 2009 4:41 PM , Anonymous Bret4207 said...

I never said large Gov;t roles in the economy don't have an effect. But when is the last time you saw Gov't (taxpayers) money spent on what it was taken for and under budget at that? It always gets spent on something "else" ( ie-Levee repair money in La. spent on a stadium) or it's grossly over budget (ie- Bostons "Big Dig"). We benefit from some of it every day- computers, GPS, weather services, etc. But look at the WASTED money! Whatever your pet peeve is (the war, Great Society, bank bailouts, etc) there are trillions wasted with nothing good to show of it. And that's to say nothing of the "Senator Elbert T. Lardbottom Memorial Airport" or whatever other self aggrandizing scheme any individual politician comes up with.

So think about that for a minute. Then think about China, Taiwan, Korea, etc. Think subsidies, low overhead and tax incentives to locate there. When you can produce something in China for $1.00 that cost's you $10.00 to produce here it's not rocket science to go to China.

As for the Horrible, really bad depression- Maybe, maybe not. Maybe all we did is delay it. Maybe we'll get past Christmas without a crash-maybe. Or amybe it'll never crash, but I doubt it. Pretty much everyone is jumping on the "OH CRAP!!!" bandwagon as far as the economy goes now. Those of us who were whining about it 3 years ago were poo-pooed and those that said the same thing 15 years ago were considered nuts. I just hope I am a nut.

The New Deal? You can than Hitler for getting us out of the Depression, not FDR. Boy, we sure did build a lot of campsites though, didn;t we?

 
At November 24, 2009 5:11 PM , Anonymous UB said...

Ty said;
if you're growing a monoculture, buying (the majority of) your feed, using bovine growth hormones, steroids, using synthetic fertilizer, etc etc etc... well then you're just plain doing it wrong.

Geez Ty... you must be all of 20 years old or younger. When did a small farmer have growth hormones and steroids for his daily farming use 40 years ago?

 
At November 24, 2009 6:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bret said: "So think about that for a minute. Then think about China, Taiwan, Korea, etc. Think subsidies, low overhead and tax incentives to locate there."
Exactly my point. Those are big-government policies. They worked for those countries. It was not pure market economics, except in the US, where we just let the jobs vanish--to those countries where they don't practice pure market economics.

 
At November 24, 2009 6:52 PM , Blogger ty said...

This post has been removed by the author.

 
At November 24, 2009 10:19 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

Is the North Country a cautionary tale for the Federal stimulus?

This was the original question.

Growth hormone, steroids and mono-culture aside.

Dreams of utopia aside.

After considering all comments posted thus far, including my own, I'd have to say, yes, the North Country is definitely a "cautionary tale."

We need Federal stimulus.

Stimulate us Uncle Sam!

Bring to the NC a superduperpoopermax prison. We folks up here don't fear some two-bit hoodlums masquerading as some kind of "Dr. Evil" and a bunch of "mini-me's". They got in a lucky sucker punch on 9/11.

Not hard to pull off on a free and fearless society.

What makes us strong is also what makes us free.

We are free from fear.

Well, most of us are anyway.

 
At November 24, 2009 11:29 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

At November 24, 2009 10:41 AM , ty said...

"Hate to break it to ya folks, but human civilization survived, grew, and flourished before the 15th century when banks were invented."


Hate to break it to you ty, but it is obvious that you have no earthly idea what human survival was like in Europe before the 15th century, and the rebirth of Western civilization.

BTW banks in some form were around even before the 15th century.

 
At November 25, 2009 8:33 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

to dale hobsen
increased productivity may be from more efficient techniques developed, or more illegalls hired at the construction site building houses we can't sell, faster. and it may have little to do with work ethic at all. how ever i believe illegals working for farmers is a great thing simply because i feel we need food grown, not housing built. i like food.....

 
At November 25, 2009 1:55 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

Really good points presented above. I'm learning each time I read here and from doing research on the variety of issues presented in "The In Box".

Now, again about the FedStim. The same Conservatives (not all) who oppose Big Government spending in support of the economy, will be the first in line to take jobs created by stimulus money.

As an aside: Conservatives would be first in line for the stimulus jobs because of the American work ethic they value. They will gladly work 12 hrs. a day at $5.00 per hour for all true laissez faire Corporate Bosses. Giant posters of Ayn Rand will hang from the rafters of the windowless, airless, non-regulated factories.
The Bosses, to show appreciation to the workers at Xmas time, will give each worker a 6 pound turkey as a bonus. The CEO's will give each other 6 million dollars as a bonus.


In contrast, the "lazy-fair" Liberals, after 2 hours of yoga and colon detox, will show up for the jobs 3 hrs. late (had to ride a bicycle there).
They'd demand a workday of 4 hours at $60.00 an hour with a paid 2 hr. lunch break. All work would take place in pyramind shaped, glass buildings on rainy days, and out in the sunshine on nice days.

The Libs, still being bummed out for having to work in the first place, would rabble-rouse with other Libs in the workforce to become a united front, a union, to take on the Slave Masters.

Does that cover both extremes?

To paraphrase someone else who posted on this thread; FDR's New Deal was not done aggresively enough or funded at the levels required to make it a complete success. it finally took the stimulus money needed to make war to bring our nation out of depression.

I hope that this time around, we can put the likes of Grover Norquist to shame. Bush was no dummy. It is and was the neo-Con goal to make the Federal government as non-responsive and inept as possible when it comes to meeting the needs of our nation.

Norquist wants to make the Federal Government "small enough to drown in a bathtub"

Reagan: "The nine most feared words in the Amerian language - I'm from the Government and I'm here to help"

The Cons purposefully have underfunded Federal regulatory agencies and watered-down oversite protections. They got us into unnecessary wars that have bled our treasury at a time when the American people need that money here at home.

Then when when things eventually go badly (and they have gone badly) the people will distrust their government and will not look to the Feds for rescue.

Just look at the pile of manure Bush left Obama to dig through and un-do. I wouldn't want that job for all the tea in China!

 
At November 26, 2009 1:08 PM , Anonymous Bret4207 said...

And the Dems have overburdened us with ineffective and unnecerssary social programs while lining their pockets and gutting the military on more than one occaision.

The guilt is with the politicians who serve for THEIR benefit rather than for the countries.

 
At November 26, 2009 1:15 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

brett,
gutting the military on more than one occaision?
We spend more on defense than all other nations in the world combined.

 
At November 26, 2009 3:06 PM , Anonymous frank gaffney's eyebrow said...

Bret4207 wrote:

"And the Dems have overburdened us with ineffective and unnecerssary social programs while lining their pockets and gutting the military on more than one occaision."


Right "right" on Bret4207. The completely funded, but totally unecessary social programs, are what the Dems use as bribes to buy the votes of the inner-city minorities and the poor.

These socialist programs, despite being 100% funded (as originally planned)hav been a complete and abject failure.

Remember when Roosevelt initiated the "No Child's Left Behind" program? More excessive and expensive meddling by the Feds with our State's rights! And despite being fully funded, the stupid teacher unions continue to insist upon teaching their godless doctrines and resist implementing NCLB in their classrooms!

As for the damned Democrats starving our nation's vital, yet vastly underfunded military/industrial/congressional welfare complex, we see that the DOD doesn't have the money anylonger for $300.00 hammers and $2,000.00 toilet seats.

They've had to drastically pare back expenses. As an example, U.S. Navy Admirals, living in mansions on Admirals Row in Norfolk Naval Base, Virginia must now make due with just two Phillipino stewards, instead of the usual four.

Where will it all end?

PS. I only like the socialist programs that benefit me. The rest of them are for commie sympathizers and lazy low life urban types.

 
At November 27, 2009 10:49 AM , Anonymous Bret4207 said...

Spare me the sarcasm folks. Read what I wrote- politicians serve themswelves, not the nation. that's the problem and it's on both sides. LBJ's Great Society has cost us trillions and we still ahve the same problems. Taxpayer money is funneled to worthless causes on both sides. Can't you people see that? Open your eyes instead of your wallets for a change and start asking WHY we should be funding ineffective programs, duplicate programs and programs that don;t work at all? Would you runa busines that way and expec to succeed? No, but as long as it supportsa your liberal or conservative afgenda you'll look the other way.

Yes, the Dems traditionally cut military spending, now the Repubs are starting to do itoo so as to appear more "centrist". Who suffers? Our military.

 
At November 27, 2009 8:24 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

Bret4207, you set yourself up for sarcastic replies when you write stuff like this -

Bret4207 said...
And the Dems have overburdened us with ineffective and unnecerssary social programs while lining their pockets and gutting the military on more than one occaision.

The guilt is with the politicians who serve for THEIR benefit rather than for the countries.
November 26, 2009 1:08 PM"

and then the next day you write this -

Bret4207 said...
"Spare me the sarcasm folks. Read what I wrote- politicians serve themswelves, not the nation. that's the problem and it's on both sides"
November 27, 2009 10:49 AM

Can you see the difference between what you actually wrote on ther 26th and what you now say on the 27th? No freakin' wonder you think Drudge is a real reporter. He'c capable of the same invention as you seem to be.

This ain't the first time that you have been intellectually inconsistent, but there is something else you do. When you inevitably paint yourself into a philosophical corner, you'll always try to sound reasonable by claiming "all sides do it, all politicians do it, all news media does it. "It" being dishonesty, chicanery, tom-foolery and such.

But true to form, whenever you then go on to prove your point that all pols are problematic, crooked or stupid, you just can't resist using FDR, LBJ, JFK, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton as proof for your examples.

Keep on feeding my beautiful garden with your wonderful droppings. Rich and full of good stuff.

 
At November 30, 2009 10:50 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course I use those examples Mr Eyebrow, they're the guys you support. You already know Bush and company did it. It's true, I'll never be able to match your untouchable intellect and foul mouthed writing style. I'm just a simple right wing nut job doing my best to irritate you into insanity. Dick Arney sent me and Dick Cheney calls me each day with a diabolical new idea to throw at you. Mostly I'm just here to insult your God's Olbermann and Obama.

Politicians line their pockets and ensure their continued reelction by using taxpayer money to "buy" those votes, in essence. Provide me with irrefutable proof that never happens Frank. Even an dummy like me can see it.

I'll give you this Frank- you are consistent, consistently rude, consistently belittling, consistently wrong, and oh so overbearingly smug.

 
At November 30, 2009 5:41 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

Sorry if I insult your Gods, Cheney, Armey, Bush, Rummy, Condi, and money.

Anonymous said:

I'll give you this Frank- you are consistent, consistently rude, consistently belittling, consistently wrong, and oh so overbearingly smug.

November 30, 2009 10:50 AM


Dear Anon.

Thank you for saying that I'm consistent. Read again through your posting, you folks seem to be consistent also.

Consistently "Right"

I'm sorry to be the cause of your flatulence and nervous stomach.

Must be my Catholic upbringing, gowing up poor in a family of eight, and a 6 year career in the Marines (started off as a maggot) and 16 years in the Navy, especially my service as a paralegal, that forces me to be smug, wrong, and belittling.

I would like to play by Queen Annes' rules, but, I've found it difficult to do so while Bret4207 and other Anonymous posters, such as yourself, tend to fight dirty and anonymously.

It is commendable of you that you present a cogent argument for cutting taxes in a bloated government.

It is foul of you to cast aspersions and lies about the President and other Dems you hate.

Not dislike...hate.

And those who call you an ally are ready to go to the streets, armed and ready to fight a culture war with armor piercing bullets against this foreign born impersonator in the Oval Office.

If the dreck and lies that I write don't apply to you, then you should not feel insulted.

And, IMO, we need the Federal Stimulus. And I thank GWBush, who got it all started.

Nothing personal.

 
At November 30, 2009 5:49 PM , Anonymous frank gaffney's eyebrow said...

fjthies, you should shut the h.e.doublehockeysticks up!

Your trite and untruthful scribblings mock the concept of Freedom of Speech.

Did you ever consider becoming a speech writer for the Dems? They lie consistently and no one is smugger than that Joe Biden.

Thank you for your service. But just because Dick Cheney received 5deferments from doing his patriotic in our Armed Forces, does not make you superior, you maggot.

Go spread your germs somewhere else!

 
At November 30, 2009 6:16 PM , Anonymous fjthies said...

Frank Gaffney's Eyebrow, I am simply trying to earn a reputation as the "Rush Limbaugh" of the loony-left.

My goal is to take on the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter with "both" hands tied behind my back.

But, then again, I wouldn't want to arouse them in that GITMO imitation.

My goal is to be as smug, wrong, foul, and inconsistent as are the present day heroes and heroines of that speak for the RepCon empire.

How am I doing, Mr. Eyebrow?

 

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