Frank Rich does an NY-23 post-mortem
Here's Frank Rich's take on what he views as the bursting of the Hoffman phenomenon bubble -- and his from-afar view of the North Country:
This race was a damaging setback for the hard right. Hoffman had the energetic support of Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Fox as well as big bucks from their political auxiliaries.
Furthermore, Hoffman was running not only in a district that Rove himself described as “very Republican” but one that fits the demographics of the incredibly shrinking G.O.P.
The 23rd is far whiter than America as a whole — 93 percent versus 74 — with tiny sprinklings of blacks, Hispanics and Asians.
It has few immigrants. It’s rural. Its income and education levels are below the norm.
Only if the district were situated in Dixie — or Utah — could it be a more perfect fit for the narrow American demographic where the McCain-Palin ticket had its sole romps last year.
If the tea party right can’t win there, imagine how it might fare in the nation where most Americans live. Some G.O.P. leaders have started to notice...
In the aftermath of this clear-cut demonstration of how Republicans can win, the revolutionaries are still pledging to purge the party’s moderates by rallying behind more Hoffmans in G.O.P. primaries from Florida to California.
And they may get some scalps. But Tuesday’s loss revealed that they’re better at luring freak-show gawkers into Fox’s tent than voters into the G.O.P.’s.
Labels: election09
posted by Brian Mann @ 11/08/2009 08:13:00 AM
21 Comments
21 Comments:
Would it be possible for guys like Rush Limbaugh to evolve in their thinking, or are they just destined to flame out?
Mike
Flame out. I left the GOP over the NY 23 fiasco. The Democrats have room for diverse opinions, the GOP doesn't. Message received. The GOP doesn't want moderates, and it lost this one.
And the Democratic party welcomes "moderates"? Try being pro-life and a Democrat - not possible. Where's all their respect for diversity then? Where's the "open mindedness" there? What a joke.
Brian or someone else is now going to post how Schumer et.al. recruited democratic "moderates" into the party, blah, blah, blah... as evidence that the Ds are more open than the GOP. Fine, there are a handful of "moderate" elected officials in the Democratic party but the warm welcome extended by the Democratic Party for voters who are socially conservative (by that I mean not a post-modernist in the definition of marriage [yet supportive of equality in legal benefits] and pro-life) was withdrawn decades ago.
If you believe the GOP is intolerant of gays, prochoicers, etc. wait around and you'll see that the Democratic Party isn't much different. I've been privy to conversations by so-called "open-minded" Dems that would make your jaw drop. The intolerance toward those who are are religious, patriotic, favor market solutions to government ones, and so on rests just under the surface.
The next time you're sipping your chardonnay and ruminating w/your friends about how self-centered the right is and how morally superior your positions are to those with whom you disagree, ask yourself, how open minded and tolerant of others are you? I bet you'll be surprised by the answer.
Anonymous #3 makes a good point about the open-mindedness of Dems -- but you've got to get over yourself. Chardonnay-sipping liberals? Please. That's about as accurate as describing all conservatives as rednecks and all GOPers as seer-sucker wearing yacht-club members.
The chardonnay line is suggestive of the elitism and condescension that makes up the top ranks of the Democratic Party. If you don't believe me, read Tom Wolfe's first hand accounts in the '60s (Radical Chic & Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers). Not much has changed and my first hand experiences are much the same as his. For example, last year at a "Christmas" party, I was privy to a conversation where faculty at one of the universities in St.Lawrence Co. were discussing papists and the ilk of Catholics. The conversation ended when I mentioned that maybe we should get rid of them and while we're at it blacks and Jews too. They got my point and changed the topic.
I have to agree with Anon 6:06. The last thing the Democrat party is is welcoming. Does anyone really claim the Dems would be welcoming to a free market, gun rights, property rights, pro lifer who hates taxes, the UN, socialism/Marxism and believes in persona responsibility and a frugal mindset? No way. Any one of those items would be a problem for them. Here's a little blurb I saw that lays it out the way I see it. You're of course welcome to tell me how dumb I am for agreeing with any of it-
Where do you fit?
If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one. If a liberal
doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.
If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn`t eat meat. If a liberal is
a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.
If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy. A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.
If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a liberal
is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.
If a black man or Hispanic are conservative, they see themselves as
independently successful. Their liberal counterparts see themselves as
victims in need of government protection.
If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his
situation. A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.
If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don't like be shut down.
If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church. A liberal
non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless
it's a foreign/alternative religion, of course!)
If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping
for it, or may choose a job that provides it. A liberal demands that
the rest of us pay for his.
If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is
embarrassed. If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans
like he's in labor and then sues.
I know where I fit, do you know where you fit?
Sweeping generalizations. I don't make them. Do you?
Hey Chris,
I own a seersucker suit, a small sailboat, and I'm a Republican. Nicely done. :)
I prefer red wine, myself....
At November 8, 2009 6:06 PM , Anonymous :
The facts negate your belief. 39 Democrats refused to vote for the health care proposal in Congress if it subsidized abortion in any way.
Yes, there are pro life Democrats. The question is, are there any pro choice republicans left? There is one fewer, we do know that.
Can you be a Conservative AND be pro choice? And the answer to that is resounding NO! And there is the problem. All must think the same in the " New " Republican/Conservative Party.
History tells us Democrats , to their detriment sometimes, are open to differing views and compromise.
BRET4297
The "where do you fit" is cute little talking point story that has been making the internet round on blog sites lately.
It is believed to originate from a guy named Randall Sexton. Quite a character in his own right.
Here is his bio:
"I’m a grouchy old codger of German, Dutch, Irish and Native American descent and hold an official birth certificate from the United States. I have been a registered nurse for over 35 years and hold masters degrees in nursing (psych) and business. I’m a practicing shaman who trained at the Four Winds Society. I’m also a Zen Shiatsu therapist plus a psychiatric nurse practitioner student. I have lived in Dhaka, Bangladesh for four years and now live in Bangkok, Thailand. Yes, I’m a migrant worker."
http://www.ethelthefrog.com/?tag=liberal
How sad is it that a political hack like Karl Rove is still sought out for his thoughts and leadership. Beside mastering the art of "slash and burn" politics, what exactly has he ever done?
Oh yes, I forgot, his battle plan battle plan between 2000-2008 destroyed the Republican Party. Mea Culpa.
Sweeping generalizations, yes, but accurate nonetheless. You know someone mentioned pro-choice conservatives. The thought alone is a generalization. I'm not a hard core pro lifer. Contraception is fine, 3rd trimester and partial birth abortions are wrong unless mom is going to die for sure. I don't agree with abortion as a form of convenient contraception, but that doesn't mean I think abortion should be outlawed. I do agree Roe vs. Wade was a lousy decision, it wasn't written well, but it's still law and that's that until someone decides to clear it up or change it.
So, does that make me pro life or pro choice? Either is a generalization and that's supposed to be wrong. I've had people on both sides tell me I'm going to burn.
Anon 7:27 PM;
"The facts negate my beliefs"? What kind of statement is that? Be serious here.
One vote on one measure doesn't undue decades of intolerance towards conservative Democrats or just plain prolife people who happen to otherwise share the social justice beliefs of the Democratic Party.
I'll bet if you dig a bit deeper into the Ds that supported stripping the bill of pro-abortion language that they're from marginal seats (won by less than 60% of vote share). The point being that their one vote could simply be posturing for their constituents and next year's election. If these same 39 Members consistently vote pro-life then I'd be willing to, as you put it, have the facts negate my beliefs.
BTW - there are plenty of conservative pro-choicers many are libertarians.
Two points on previous comments:
How does one reach the completely assinine conclusion that Dems/Libs are against anyone who is patriotic? Can anyone who is well read, well rounded in experience and/or formal education, and well informed believe any of this tripe? We're not patriotic because we disagree with the Reps/Cons? Is that the test? Are we unpatriotic because we criticise our government and politicians?
Second, Anon. claims that they overheard people at St. Law U. speaking ill of Catholics and the Pope - therefore Dems/Libs are anti-religious and also The Democratic party doesn't welcome people of religious faith. Puhlease!
How does anon. know the political beliefs of those overheard knocking Catholics at SLU?
Perhaps they were die hard, conservative, anti-papists of the Baptist faith? I know of at least 3conservative profs that teach there (one of them a black man). And SLU is NOT Berkely.
As for Dems having no room for religious types - oh yes we do! However, we tend to attract people who practice faith and reason - faith and science - faith and reality. Those who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old, that Bush was a great Christian man, that dinosaurs walked with humans... well, they really don't want anything to do with Dems/Libs. It's not that we push these good people away, it's that they shun us, "shaking the dust of their feet" according to the scriptures.
I still go back to Dede, funny thing -I didn't hear any of the republicans whinning about her votes when she was voting as a repulican for the good old GOP-- LONG before she even knew John McHugh was not going to be running this time- that's the real issue here, talk about turncoats. Sleeze bags republicans!.....Give me a break!
Frank,
You need to read more carefully. I didn’t state that libs/dems are unpatriotic or even insinuate that. I suggested that there are those in the D party that are intolerant towards the patriotic. You’ve made a poor inference. Second, I mentioned that I attended a Christmas party in St. Lawrence County (not @ SLU), I’m not going to identify the University, departments or faculty that engaged in what happened. I didn’t say the people in question were denigrating the pope I said they were using the word papists, which is a derogatory term for Catholics. The point is that it’s unacceptable to disparage people on the basis of their race, ethnicity, religion, or otherwise – and this is precisely what several professors were doing. Let me state the obvious, because education decreases ignorance, it was the last group of people I would ever expect to practice what they were doing.
Your right in that some people will hold onto all sorts of superstitious beliefs but my point is not to debate natural selection etc. [I suspect we are both adherents] it’s to suggest that even among the most educated credentialed class, there are some who make incredibly intolerant and ignorant statements. Last, there are conservatives that peddle intolerance, ignorance, etc. too but because libs are supposedly so open-minded I thought it worthwhile to suggest that they too can be equally closed-minded.
The author does have a valid point. If it doesn't fly in a nearly all white, rural District, it will be a tough sell in the rest of the Country..
I am from Northern New York and now live in a Southern State. Northern New York is a very rural area and it should not be a surprise that they support Democrats and very Left Wing Liberals....A majority of people there are on some kind of government assistance. They have come to expect to be supported by the government, including health care. (although not much will change, because that is pretty much how it is right now)
Anon. re: professors talking about papists. My apologies for reading "professors in Saint Lawrwnce County" as profs at SLU. Still the question remains, how do you know the religious/political makeup of this group of profs. Maybe pointing out who they were by name/department, but that would be nasty, no? So just leave it as some anonymous (such as yourself) group of professors were using language that burned to your very soul and left a lasting impression on it.
Anon. "from Northern New York living in a Souther State", sister, you better not start talking like that about us folks still up here dealing with these hard times while you chose to run away.
By the way, are you ignorant of the fact that state like NY pay a higher share of $$ in taxes to the Feds than they receive back in form of Federal aid, and that good, ol' Southern states pay less in taxes, but receive the lions share of Federal aid? Talk about not knowing basic facts.
But, as shown by my words at the beginning of this post, I am prone to mistakes also.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, Anon. who wrote "You need to read more carefully. I didn’t state that libs/dems are unpatriotic or even insinuate that. I suggested that there are those in the D party that are intolerant towards the patriotic"
I know what you mean anon. There are those in the Democratic party *but not the libs* who are intolerant towards the patriotic. That is not insinuating in the least that these dems * but not the libs* are unpatriotic for being intolerant towards patriots.
I can clearly understand that you are not insinuating anything.
I will watch FOX News tonight.
They never insinuate anything either. I clearly understand that difference now.
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