Burn that flag
I was sitting at an outdoor restaurant a week or so ago and a van rolled by with a prominent Confederate flag stuck to its backside.
Call me thin-skinned, but I bristled. I feel a fume of indignation at the sight of that flag whenever I see it on t-shirts or headbands or bumper stickers.
It's not that I have anything against the South. The Confederate flag has nothing whatsoever to do with that region of the country in its modern form.
Nor do I have a problem with states' rights. Frankly, I think the notion of 50 state-level experiments in democracy is brilliant.
No, my problem with the Confederate flag is that it is unpatriotic.
Whatever their motivations (more on that in a moment) politicians and soldiers in the South committed treason.
They betrayed their oaths to our Constitution and our military. They attacked our United States Army, collaborating with foreign powers to do so.
By the time the war was done more than 350,000 loyal Union soldiers were dead.
Put simply, the Confederacy abandoned democratic principles and tried to shatter our Republic through force of arms and terrorism
It puts Timothy McVeigh and Osama bin Laden to shame.
Yes, in those days, many Americans saw things differently. They were Virginians or New Yorkers first; their loyalty to our nation was secondary.
And many couldn't see that the institutions of slavery were savage, evil and reprehensible beyond all rationalization.
But more than a century after the Civil War, people who bear the Confederate flag should know better.
They claim to be patriotic, law-abiding Americans. They claim to reject the racism and brutality of the pre-Civil War South.
I say nonsense.
These days, it's illegal in Germany to hoist a Nazi flag. I don't support that kind of official censorship.
But I can see absolutely no moral difference between a Swastika and a Confederate flag.
One society used industrial methods to enslave and exterminate Jews; the other used industrial methods to enslave and exterminate Africans.
Fortunately, there are plenty of symbols available for people who want to show that they disapprove of an over-powerful Federal government.
There are plenty of ways for people to show their regional pride or simply to broadcast their fondness for cussed rebelliousness.
Hoist a Don't Tread On Me flag. Wear a Harley t-shirt. Whatever.
But don't fly under the colors of a movement that killed hundreds of thousands of American soldiers.
posted by Brian Mann @ 8/05/2009 12:27:00 PM
36 Comments
36 Comments:
Sooooo, didn't our forefathers committe treason to the Crown of England?
I don't mind seeing it because it helps me identify who to avoid.
Don't think they are supporting the South, more likely it is some kind of twisted White Pride thing.
Well, some people do wave that flag as code for racism. But I don't think it's quite as simple as Brian argues.
Living in Canada for the past decade been a very interesting exercise in perspective.
You know those evil Loyalist traitors? The ones who could have cost my own brave ancestors victory? Sent our founding fathers and fellow American Patriots to jail or the gallows as traitors?
Up here, that scum is celebrated for enduring unwarranted and illegal persecution followed by exile from what was their homeland too.
Those Loyalists become founding fathers & mothers of English Canada bringing with them a regard for order, rule of law and, well, loyalty!
Frankly, history and laws are usually written by the winners.
Had the Civil War ended differently the Confederation could readily lay claim to the spirit and the logic of the Declaration of Independence: people (even people you may not like or agree with) are born with the inherent right to dissolve government and form new countries.
As long as they win, that is.
That's how the US came to be.
Was that a one-off? An unrepeatable, and perfect outcome?
Or a continuum in the march of human progress?
Just asking.
Lucy Martin
Very interesting thoughts and comments.
Is it too simplistic to think that it boils down to "Is it free speech or is it a hate crime?"
There are still people in the South who feel that "The War of Northern Aggression" never ended.
Our forefathers didn't have voting rights in England's Parliament or a democratic means to settle their differences.
The men who betrayed the United States in the 1800s were members of the establishment: elected officials, soldiers and businessmen.
They had options, unlike the Founding Fathers -- who worked very hard to avoid armed insurrection.
Finally, there is a profound distinction between our Revolution -- based on some of the most profound an beautiful political ideals ever expressed -- and the Confederate betrayal.
Poisoning any effort to redeem the Confederate cause is its appalling effort to sustain the genocidal principles of slavery.
Had the Loyalists who went north to Canada done so in order to protect their right to murder, rape and enslave other humans, then I hardly think they would be viewed so kindly.
-Brian
Not only were the forefathers teasoness, but they held slave too.
Brian, I completely agree with you. Well put.
-Susan, Saranac Lake
Is it the same thing to hold slaves in 1776 and 1861?
The British abolished slavery - including in their New World holdings -- in 1833.
-Brian
There really is no other symbol or flag that stands for the South. Unless you want to use a Bonnie Blue Flag or the first national flag of the CSA, but those are morally equivalent. So regardless of your feelings about the wisdom and justice of secession, if you want to express your Southern pride, you don't really have another option.
For Northerners trying to express their "rebelliousness," flying the battle flag is rather lame.
"A house divided against itself can not stand" Does the resurgance of the Confederate flag indicate a resurgance of anti-government sentiment? Does it indicate how divided the house has become yet again?
One interesting footnote in this conversation is that the "Confederate flag" was not in fact the national flag of the South.
It was a war banner used by rebel military units attacking U.S. Soldiers.
The "Stars and Bars" -- the official Confederate flag -- looked much more like the U.S. flag.
For Southerners convinced that their region needs a flag of some sort, I would say, Make one.
Hold a regional flag convention.
Regional distinctions are good and healthy; regional pride even better.
But don't stick with one the flag that symbolizes your greatest shortcoming.
-Brian
It's funny how people get mad at a flag. Government education at it's best. I wonder if people knew how much the Klan flies "Old Glory" if these morons would want to burn that flag. Maybe "Old Glory" should be burnt for the mass murder of civilians during the Civil War, Indian Wars, Philipino Occupation, Bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Firebombing of Tokyo, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Iraq, Afhganistan, GTMO, etc....
Burn a flag but make sure you pick the right one that does you wrong. The Confederate flag has never been held up in atrocities that have been committed such as the one listed.
I have thought a lot about the confederate flag. It represents different things in different people's minds including those who honor it by flying it. There is a sense of family pride for some who fly it. It represents their heritage and past. For others it is a sign of rebellion and distrust in our country. For others it is something to fly to show that they are wild and crazy. I really don't think, unless it is flown by avowed racists, that it should be looked at as out of bounds.
The Civil War was in no way the same as the Nazi Regime. Those folks wanted to take over the world. They were also not interested in enslaving a race of people but systematically annihilating them. They wanted to create a master race not a new nation. The Civil War existed not only from slavery issues but from the representation side of things as well. That is also how the Revolutionary Way began.
I am originally from California and a family that firmly believes in Civil Rights for all. However, I was also raised to respect others beliefs and family ties. This is a country of freedoms and no matter how much we might disagree with someone else's views it is their right to have them and express them as long as they are within the law. To do anything else is what would bring us closer to what happened in Germany.
The History Man
http://www.footnote.com
History Man -
I disagree pretty profoundly with your take on this.
The Nazis were noteworthy for using the most modern industrial techniques in their effort to destroy a race of people.
They also used slave Jewish labor widely.
The American slave trade used similar industrial practices.
Indeed, the South anticipated many of the Nazi regimes most reprehensible evils.
I've added a photograph to the main post, not simply to illustrate the brutality of slavery but to demonstrate that this was an industrial system.
There were special collars, whips, cages, breeding rules, markets, methods of execution, etc.
Slaves were systematically tortured, raped and denied literacy as a method of control.
The Southern states, meanwhile, had full democratic access to the institutions and laws of the United States.
In many ways they enjoyed a disproportionate amount of power.
When they decided to initiate a war that left hundreds of thousands of patriots dead, it was an act of treason not principle.
Any effort to rationalize or romanticize the Civil War -- and there have been many over the decades -- is doomed to fail.
-Brian
My Choctaw ancestor wouldn't agree that the federal government, with its lies and broken promises, deserved his loyalty. That's why he fought for the south.
"In many ways they enjoyed a disproportionate amount of power."
Exactly the opposite. Please furnish documentation.
"When they decided to initiate a war that left hundreds of thousands of patriots dead, it was an act of treason not principle."
Exactly the opposite, as Lincoln Instigated The Firing On Ft. Sumter.
"You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Ft Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "
Lincoln, Letter To Gustavus Fox on 1 May, 1861
"He (Lincoln) himself conceived the idea, and proposed sending supplies, without an attempt to reinforce giving notice of the fact to Gov Pickins of S.C. The plan succeeded. They attacked Sumter it fell, and thus, did more service than it otherwise could."
Senator Orville Hickman Browning's diary dated July 3, 1861
(Lincoln's personal and political friend)
"Slaves were systematically tortured, raped and denied literacy as a method of control.
Again, please furnish documentation for your assertion.
Brian, the Stars and Bars was the first national flag, but it was changed in 1863 to include the battle flag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_and_Bars
Regardless, it was politicians, not military men, who actually drove the secession.
The Confederate States military in essence fought a war of defense. Defense of the homeland was their essential strategic goal. A lot of Confederate officers like Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Morgan and Mosby were not diehard secessionists or proponents of slavery; they only supported the cause after secession had already occurred, when the Union was set to invade and conquer their homes.
Yes they attacked US Army (and Navy) units. But I don't blame men for attacking enemy soldiers trying to conquer and pillage their homeland. I would have done the same. Fighting in defense of your country is the very crux of patriotism.
The US military did lose 350,000 men in the fight to retake the South. The military honors and remembers their sacrifice. But it also remembers the gallantry of the Southern soldiers. That's why we've named numerous Navy ships and Army forts after CSA generals.
End of the day?
Confederate flag=loser flag.
Clowns may as well fly a Detroit Lions flag.
Southerners do not feel that the war has ended because the Yankees keep Shooting at us !
yup you're thin skinned...
...and a bigot. 'bigotry' is defined as denying to others what you readily reserve for yourself. ergo, you're a bigot. a hypocritical one at that.
Mr. Mann says “But I can see absolutely no moral difference between a Swastika and a Confederate flag.”
Mr. Mann is not alone in feeling that way. Lots of people feel that way because there is plenty of readily-available information to lead them to such a conclusion – just as Saul of Tarsus, acting on the information readily available to him, was firmly convinced that Judaism was the One Correct Way to worship the One True God, and Christianity was blasphemy.
Those who believe the War for Southern Independence was fought over slavery do not know about the Corwin Amendment – offered by an Ohio congressman, and approved of by Abraham Lincoln -- which would have forbidden the Federal government to interfere with slavery where it existed.
Those who believe that the Confederate States invaded the United States do not realize that it was the United States that invaded the Confederate States.
Those who decry the loss of life among Federal soldiers (it was great, and included at least one of my relatives) seem to know little if anything about the atrocities the Federal troops committed against Confederate non-combatants – some greater than those committed by Axis troops in the Second World War.
Those who associate the Confederate Battle Flag with Ku Kluxers and other hate groups do not know that the Sons of Confederate Veterans have repeatedly – most recently on 25 July 2009 – condemned those groups, nor that such groups make even more use of the thirteen-stripe United States flag than of the Confederate Battle Flag. (see http://pointsouth.com/csanet/kkk.htm)
Finally, does Mr. Mann’s posting sound like the writing of a man expressing a rational, well-reasoned opinion, or does it sound as if he has an obstinate and unreasoning attachment to his own belief and opinions with intolerance of beliefs opposed to them (which Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged gives as the definition of the word “bigotry”)?
Clifton Palmer McLendon
CliftonPalmerMcLendon@yahoo.com
A couple of final thoughts.
First, great discussion for the most part. Interesting points on all sides getting at the complexity of this kind of symbol.
Second, I'm convinced that arguments about the South and the Civil War and its relationship to slavery are pretty weak.
Yes, there were other issues at play -- states' rights, cultural differences, etc.
But the same can be said of the Nazi regime. Murdering millions of Jews was only one aspect of their movement.
Similarly, the effort to preserve slavery was only one aspect of the South's political constitution.
But that - along with the treasonous effort to destroy the United States - was enough to damn the whole enterprise.
About my purported bigotry:
Sorry, anonymous, but words mean something.
If you rally to a flag that symbolizes the enslavement of a race and the most violent attack on the United States in our history, then you are embracing something fraught with shame.
America's flag also carries burdens, yes.
But the American experiment, on the whole, has been a clumsy striving toward something better, more just and more free than anything the world had seen before.
-Brian
Brain your correct your thin skinned and historically ignorant. Study deeper about the Tariff issue and get back to us. That flag is the one of which slavery existed for 4 years it existed under your flag for over 100 years. And the US government broke every agreement it made with the 1st Americans so don't act so holier than thou.
You know you can say what you will about the Confederate Flag. To me, it is NOT a sign of Hate. It IS a sign of my Great-Great Grandfather, who fought in that War Between the States. Maybe you should think about the atrocities committed by the Government under the Flag we fly today. Did you ever think about the things done to the American Indians under that flag? And still done today? YES, my great-great grandfather was an Indian. He fought with Stand Watie as one of the Cherokee Braves. But then, after the war, after the Natives saved Andrew Jackson, our land was stolen. And then the Trail of Tears. So before you judge, you need to read your history. Do not judge a Flag. And as far as saying it is the same as a "swastika", you really are wrong. If I see a Confederate Flag, I will salute it. Its not about "slavery", its about PRIDE. Pride for the South, the American Indian, and standing for what we believe. I am not one to see slavery in that flag. Slavery was here long before that flag was flown. And it was very wrong. Did you know Slavery was started by blacks in the 1700's? So yes, I will have my Flag, I will have it in my home. And NO ONE can take that away. As far as the NAACP, they need to get another project, maybe the black on black crime? By the way, my Confederate Flag is embroidered with the words "CHEROKEE BRAVES".
The flag known as the Confederate Battle Flag, was exactly that . . . the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The Confederate States of America had three different national flags, the first referred to as "the stars and bars", the second referred to as "the stainless banner", and the third now referred to as "the unsurrendered banner".
When Virginia was originally voted on by the then-existing states, and ratified to become a member of these United States, it did so with the written right to leave the Union if it so chose to do. Two Northern states did the same thing. After the War of Northern Invasion, Virginia was forced back into the Union at bayonette-point, but the North conveniently overlooked this original term of ratification to which the Union had agreed.
Yes, the Union lied . . . in writing . . . and continues to lie today! The Union will only tell the truth when their feet are held close to the fire, which is why we have the Second Amendment in our Bill of Rights, and this may be the most important amendment, closely followed by the Tenth Amendment.
Secession is NOT illegal. It is totally Constitutional, which is why President Jefferson Davis was not charged with any crime after being held a prisoner for two years after the end of the war, under very abject conditions at Fort Monroe in Virginia. The Northern legal minds knew that secession was legal, and would be proven such if President Davis was brought to trial. When the Union government finally grasped the impact of the full truth of this, President Davis was finally released, after having been held in solitary confinement for two years after the WBTS ended, without any formal charges ever being brought.
Being a Virginia native, with ancestors who fought for the Confederate States of America for the duration of the WBTS, I hold dear the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, also known as the Confederate Battle Flag.
DEO VINDICE
You'll have to explain to me why secession is treason. I don't see it that way at all.
As for 350,000 Union soldiers losing their lives, well consider this: the Union under Lincoln could have waved goodbye to the seceeding states (which at the time did not include Virginia) and issued a proclamation to blacks to "come on up!" and homestead land the government confiscated from the Plains Indians to give to the railroads. In fact, had that land been sold at a fair market value instead of being given to the RRs in a move than can only be described as fascist, there would have been sufficient monies to purchase the freedom of every black slave in Dixie, compensation slave owners had received when Britain outlawed the practice circa 1820s and for which Southern slave owners asked as well. That certainly would have been less expensive than the over $6 billion ($9 billion by the time war pensions were paid out in 1906) and 350K dead that prosecuting the war cost!
So calling Southerners 'traitors' and oath breakers is disingenuous at best. This was a fight between the Hamiltonian vision of the US (an empire ruled by an aristocracy)and the Jeffersonian vision of small farms and independent craftsmen making a living without coercion or interference from the likes of bankers and politicians. The South declined to partake of the imperial vision; the rank and file Southron citizen was appalled that its soil was being invaded by those with no clue about what was really going on.
So according to your rationale, we should rejoin Britain. The Ukrainians, Byelorussions, Poles and Finns are ungrateful rubes who are traitors for resisting Russian hegemony and communism. You have learned your lessons from "Uncle Joe" Stalin: call names and cast aspersions. Bravo.
O.K., we have never had a Civil War in the South. The dictionary says CIVIL WAR is between two citizens in the same country, remember CSA is still a country. Gen. Lee only surrendered the northern army, not the country.
The Stars and Stripes is the true slavery flag and flew more years over slavery than the Confederate flag.
More free blacks owned more slaves than whites. Do a Google search for "BLACK SLAVE OWNERS"
When every one that loves the south will stop using the northern words CIVIL WAR that is a lie, we citizens of the south will be better off.
R. W. Moore
Here is what the 1857 United States Military Academy cadet oath says, having been taken from the 1857 edition of the "Regulations for the U.S. Military Academy" (which was the last edition published prior to the War Between The States):
"I, ______ of the State of _______ aged _____ years, ______ months, having been selected for an appointment as Cadet in the Military Academy of the United States, do hereby engage with the consent of my (Parent or Guardian) in the event of my receiving such appointment, that I will serve in the army of the United States for eight years, unless sooner discharged by competent authority. And I ____________ DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR [emphasis original], that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them, HONESTLY and FAITHFULLY [emphasis original], against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever; and that I will observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the Officers appointed over me, according to the Rules and Articles of War."
In 1861, the United States Military Academy changed the cadets' oath. This oath was approved on August 3, 1861. The regulations clause, regarding this change, reads as follows:
"CHAP. XLII - An Act providing for the better Organization of the Military Establishment. Sec. 8. And be it further enacted, That no cadet, who has been or shall hereafter be reported as deficient, either in conduct or studies, and recommended to be discharged from the academy, shall be returned or reappointed, or appointed to any place in the army before his class shall have left the academy and received their commissions, unless upon the recommendation of the academic board of the academy. Provided; That all cadets now in the service, or hereafter entering the Military Academy at West Point, shall be called on to take and subscribe the following oath: "I, _______________ do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and bear true allegiance to the National Government; that I will maintain and defend the sovereignty of the United States paramount to any and all allegiance, sovereignty, or fealty I may owe to any State, county, or country whatsoever, and that I will at all times obey the legal orders of my superior officers and the rules and articles governing the armies of the United States. Any cadet or candidate for admission who shall refuse to take this oath shall be dismissed from the service."
As can be seen by the two different oaths, once a man resigned his commission in the U.S. Army, he became am independent citisen, free of any binding ties, free to pursue his own will, according to his conscience.
The real blight on American government was the military dictatorship of the lincoln regime, to wit:
“Lincoln’s second election was largely committed to the War and Navy Departments of the Federal government, he having been nominated by the same radical Republican Party, practically, that nominated him at Chicago in 1860; and George B. McClellan was the nominee of the Democratic Party. Lincoln made criticism of his administration treason triable by court-martial, and United States soldiers ruled at the polls. General B.F. Butler’s book gives full particulars of the large force with which he controlled completely the voters of New York City; and McClure’s book, “Our Presidents,” tells “how necessary the army vote was, and was secured”; and Ida Tarbell says: “It was declared that Lincoln had been guilty of all the abuses of a military dictatorship.”
I don't know who this Brian Mann is but I sincerly hope it is not my Nephew for his GGgrandfather fought for the CSA and kept a prisoner at Rock Island internment camp from Nov 1863 until Aug 1865 under the most inhumane treatment possible. Unlike Andersonville wherein the inhumane treatment was a result of food supplies from the north were stopped by Grant and Sherman, these men suffered for no purpose other than the delight of the guards, in fact it was so bad the citizens of Illinois made the camp warden open the gates so they could releive some of the starving men.
I believe having the confederate flag on state grounds is rediculous, because every southern state is just as much a union state as the northern states are.
Individuals have their own choices to make, but I agree that it can be argued that unless the flag is in context of the civil war, to display it is supporting the idea of armed insurrection on the US.
I think however, to compare the old south to nazi germany is comparing apples to oranges.
the south, unlike nazi germany, did not seek to invade country after country to oppress its people. that is a key difference between the confederacy and the nazis.
there were people in the south that had slaves and supported slavery, just as people in the north did. There were confederate abolitionists, and there were northern slaveholders.
even lincoln, who issued the emancipation proclamation, had a policy of freeing slaves in areas of rebellion while allowing slavery to exist in states loyal to the union.
there were even african americans who fought in the confederate army. one famous figure is charles f. lutz.
all this is by way of saying that the confederate flag purely represents ill treatment of African Americans is not quite accurate.
I think the flag can be shown if it is in context of the civil war, or if it is in marked graves of confederate dead. but to show it on state grounds is absurd.
Mr. Mann has made many statements that are directly the result of the Union victory and New England writing its version of history.
I can offer many other sources which contradict that story. The North had to write lies to make their immoral war moral.
It doesn't appear that books such as "When in the Course of Human Events" which shows tariffs as the cause of the outbreak of hostilities, have been consulted.
THere are many good books, and many written by Northern historians.
A lot of good points have been made, but I'll post a few choice facts here.
Lincoln and the North did not want blacks in the North. There were laws prohibiting black settlement in many states. The Free Soil movement was for territories free of blacks, not just slavery.
Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment, which would have made slavery safe from federal interference. This did not bring Southern states back into the Union, because it was tariffs (the South paid over 90% of taxes) which drove them from the Union.
Lincoln started the war when Congress was out of secession, so when they came back, 12 weeks later, all they could do was rubber stamp his actions.
Lincoln said he had to destroy the Republic to save the Union. The big business powers controlled him, and had to have taxes the South paid to fund projects in the North.
Confederates resigned, and were not traitors. Try looking that word up in the dictionary.
If no Northern soldiers had invaded the South, none would have died. Also thousands of blacks would have not been raped and murdered by Union soliers, to say nothing of white civilians.
And it was the Lincoln regime that brought foreign soldiers into the fray when support for the unpopular war waned. Remember, it was Lincoln who stationed thousands of troops in certain districts to make sure only "eligible" voters showed up at the polls. That and allowing soldiers to vote in these districts saved his presidency.
The strongest supporter of the Confederate battle flag that I know is a black man. How does this measure up to your posting. We fly the flag for many reasons, including support for liberty against a strong central government. The flag is known as a symbol of liberty around the world. It was sold at the Barcelona Olympics, it was used by many former Soviet states as they asserted their independence. Movements from Quebec to Italy, Yugoslavia to Spain have flown it.
And it is one of many Confederate flags. I sell shirts that have Confederate flags on them. They are popular. The problems occur when people who do not have a balanced view of history try to read into it some of their own hate. I would challenge anyone who is not familiar with the Southern view of history to read. Read about what slavery was really like, from those who were slaves. Read what soldiers and philosophers, civilians and world travelers said. Don't just get your information from New England texts and those that read only one slanted view of history.
I'd be glad to help anyone who truly wants to learn. You can email me or call. The truth is out there, I would challenge anyone to do the research.pewre
Brett Moffatt
Southerngent1555@aol.com
(865)805-3801
"But I can see absolutely no moral difference between a Swastika and a Confederate flag"
You need to open your eyes !
Hitler wanted to rule the world.
The C.S.A. was trying to separate itself from a Government that no longer met the needs of the people.
This Same Government Guaranteed the right to own slaves !
Slavery was still legal in the north ! The fugitive slave act as well as the Dredd Scott decision prove this
It was northen merchants who continued to smuggle slaves to southern states long after the import was outlawed.
And when the north abolished Slavery did they in a moral act set free the slaves ? NO they sold them to the south and put laws in place to prevent their return.
Slavery Was the Sin of a Nation !
You can call the south whatever you wish ! But when you do so remember the Draft riots in New York !
Remember the child operated sweat shops of the north.
This web site may open your eyes
http://www.slavenorth.com
Dave Tatum
Until the true history of the events leading up to that war is finally recognized by those northerners that are not afraid to read something southern, or, northern writers who actually dug for the truth, this argument is a waste of time.
The crisis that now looms before the entire 50 states will far overshadow that war. We are beginning to see some unity now both in the north and south as wll as the western states in attending the town hall meetings. When this digs to the bottom of your pockets and you no longer can afford the simple things in life, will you still be concerned about that flag?
Unfortunately, that flag is flown by a lot of uneducated people who care nothing about its' history. I say uneducated because they don't care about southern history. They, both in the north and south, are taught by liberal teachers who realize they have a captive audience of young kids that they can teach the doctrines of humanism, liberalism, and get away with it. Most know nothing of the history of this country and its' founders both northern and southern. Anybody watched Jay Len's "on the street questions"? The majority can't answer rudimentary questions concerning even modern history. These same uneducated people will be in government in a few short years!
I am from the south, and, maybe it is time for the southern states to adopt a new flag-for a new southern nation!
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